Dawn Taylor| 03/06/2024

Transcript

Dawn Taylor

Hey hey hey, it's me, your host, Dawn Taylor, and I am so excited to be talking. I'm like, is that the word? I'm honored. I'm excited. I'm crazy curious. All the things to be talking to our amazing guest today. Her name is Jackie Roby and she is this incredible, powerful international speaker, relationship mindset coach, chair of the Global Wellness Institute's Diversity Equity Inclusion Initiative, say that seven times really fast. She is a stunning Latina Bostonian who is a powerhouse. She is a wife. She is a mom. She is all of those things. And she is gracing us with her story today, but also diving into a really hard topic. And that is where trauma leads to doubt and how that shows up, where it shows up, and all of those things. So check out, like always, how to get ahold of her and to learn more about her in our show notes located at TheTaylorWay.ca and yes, I'll say that again at the end, but for now, welcome to the show, Jackie. 

Jackie Roby

Thank you so much, Dawn. I'm so thrilled to be here and just, I feel such a kindred spirit with you. 

Dawn Taylor

Thank you. We were, I was just in Boston and we were just talking prior to starting the podcast about crazy parking there. And there is no parking, but also that they had the best gluten free pizza I've ever had in my entire life at a place called Otto's. If you ever go to Boston, eat at Otto's. But you and I had met prior to this, and we really dove into what we wanted to talk about today. And that's really not just trauma. Everyone has trauma, but how it leads to doubt. And so let's start with your story. Where you want to start, and how different traumas in your life have led to different doubts and how those show up for people. Because I really, truly believe that people don't know this and they don't fully understand this about their lives. 

Jackie Roby

Yeah, absolutely. Well, you know, as we both know, there's big T trauma and little T trauma and all of them are going to be important if I look back on my life. Even in chapters. One thing that stands out is always abuse, and so abuse is the big trauma that I've experienced consistently throughout my life, starting when I was three years old. I was sexually abused by my grandfather. And that went on for four years. Later on, I found myself in a romantic relationship that was emotionally and mentally abusive. So it, you know, that's qualified as domestic violence. 

Dawn Taylor

Mhm. 

Jackie Roby

To the point where when we broke up, I had to get a restraining order. I remember being in this relationship and we had a conversation around cheating. And he said to me. “If you ever cheated, I would kill the guy and I would kill you.” And when I was in the depth of this relationship and I was 19. My thought was, oh, he loves me so much and I would never cheat. So whatever. Eventually I was able to see my way around. In corporate, I found myself being. Abused in a sexual manner. As far as, like, sexual harassment goes with older male colleagues. But smiling, keeping my mouth shut, playing along, just so that I kept everybody else comfortable. And it's so interesting that you mention being a mom when we started, because I don't fully identify in that way. Because I'm a stepmom. And yes, I know the depth of it. And for a long time I was fighting for a mom title. But the type of judgment that has been placed on me simply for having this role in a child's life is so intense. That it fed that fire of doubt. So, I started my healing journey. 22 years ago at this point. So once I left that abusive relationship, once I got through, I thought, I don't ever want to find myself in this kind of relationship again. So what can I do differently? How did I participate and that's when I learned, right? I started this journey and I learned about red flags, and I made sure I was never in an abusive romantic relationship again, which I wasn't. But what I found throughout the years is I continued to be an abuse of relationships in different scenarios. 

Dawn Taylor

I was going to say, can we can we even, sorry, can we backtrack a little bit? That 

abuse when you were young. I've heard over the years. It's interesting. Yeah, but you were so young. How did that affect you when you were older? Minds like that. Right. So for anyone who's listening that's been abused, you're all like, what? I know, I know, but I've heard this. I have heard this from many, many people, even in my own personal life that can't figure out how abuse affects somebody. On this topic of how it leads to doubt. How did that abuse play into the first abusive relationship in your life? What doubt did that create for you. 

Jackie Roby

“Am I worthy? I am not worthy enough to be loved.” So if someone's paying attention to me. That must mean that I need to keep them there. What can I do to keep them there? What can I do to keep them happy? And the fact that I wasn't protected that when I tell this story now as an adult and so many family members say, that doesn't surprise me. Why wasn't I worth protecting that? And then the ones who say, who gloss over it. “Oh, well, just keep going.” Right. Well, we're going to keep going as if nothing happened. 

Dawn Taylor

Head under the sand. Just buried a little deeper. 

Jackie Roby

Well, now. You spent a little bit, you think, am I making this up, this happen, right? What? It's not a big deal, huh? I thought it was a big deal. Okay. Maybe I shouldn't have said anything. They seem a little uncomfortable. Did I make them uncomfortable? I did that. Oh, God. It's all my fault now. And it just keeps going like that. So now you're wondering. What's real? What's not? What's good, what's bad? The rules have been thrown out and you've been shown by others that whatever you were saying or doing or trying to stand up for yourself or whatever it was happening in your experience. They're telling you it doesn't matter. So it makes you question your reality. 

Dawn Taylor

Oh my gosh. 

Jackie Roby

Your thought process. 

Dawn Taylor

I've often said to people, it's not the abuse that caused the damage. I was sexually abused by an uncle when I was 14, and I've often said that and they're like, what? And I'm like, no, no, no. What he did was horrible and wrong. And yes, it caused its own set of problems, but that I could process and that I could heal. I haven't healed the rest, but it was the fact that no one believed me. It was the fact that people turned it against me. I got a letter from his wife saying that it was my fault and I should have said “No!” louder. And admitting that he had done it, saying this had happened to other women in her life, and she just thought that people wanted her husband and that I shouldn't have dressed so slutty. I was like the most proper 14 year old effort, like it was, that it was those things. But it wasn't rape, right? It was those things that people said to me after and their actions and you know, in Canada, we had this whole thing. It was like we were taught in school. It was like, I swear it was on a TV commercial. It was like, “Say no and go and tell someone you trust.” And I'm sure anyone Canadian who's listening is laughing because you heard that. And like, we all know that because we gotta pound it into our heads. But when you say no and go and tell someone you trust and then they don't do what the school book said. Right. It was the doubts of that. It was the “I'm not worth fighting for. I'm not worth protecting. I'm not worth hurting a family relationship.” Right. I remember coming home and I'd finally charged him four years later, and I came home and my mom actually punched me for going to the cops. Like she was that mad at me that she struck me for going to the cops and saying something. And I remember just standing there and being like. Wow. “Do you know the damage this will cause to the family is what was said to me over and over and over.” Right? Like it's your fault. Right, and that doubt in your head, but also like the people that love you the most, are going to hurt you the most. 

Jackie Roby

Yeah. And that's the thing. It's the worst part of it. I think if you expect the people to protect you, to stand up for you, to be there for you, but to then turn it around. And make it your fault or it makes them uncomfortable. Yeah, I talk a lot about how you kind of get this messaging of shut up and take it.

Dawn Taylor

Oh my goodness. Yes. 

Jackie Roby

Yeah, it happened to you.

Dawn Taylor

“But he's a good man.” It was my favorite. 

Jackie Roby

I remember during the beginning of the healing around what happened with my grandfather. I was in my 20s. And part of the healing was telling people, and I was terrified that they would hate me. I was terrified that I was the one responsible for breaking up the family. Even though number one I wasn't. Let's be real. And the family was already on their own path. But for me, it just kept ringing. Everything is my fault. And that is the self-doubt. That came with it. So that's what it became in everything. Every action I take. There's this mean person in my head saying it's your fault. And you're not worthy of unconditional love. 

Dawn Taylor

And then what an interesting, when you go from that, people often ask like, how did I end up in this abusive relationship? How did I end up in this position? And I  was like, let's backtrack. How were you shown love as a child? What? What did that even look like? Because those core fundamental years. You wouldn't have even known. I'm guessing at times if it was right or wrong, good or bad, what was going on, right? Because often we don't. I'll never forget a client saying to me one time, and I've said it out loud myself, was like, the brutal part of sexual abuse is sometimes it feels good. And then that causes all kinds of crazy emotions in your head. So did I ask for it? Did I want this? Is this something that I pursued? Right? Like those voices in your head around that doubt of like, what even happened? Did it happen? Did it not happen? Right. But as this small child for this person, like a four year old or three year old. They're 

just like, “Oh, grandpa loves me. He's hanging out with me. Oh, he's touching me.” Right. 

You know it's wrong. But you wouldn't see those red flags going into a relationship later in 

life. 

Jackie Roby

One thing that I remember was dissecting how my family gave affection. I’m a Latino. We are affectionate people. There’s hugs and kisses. And every time you saw somebody you greeted someone. Give them a hug, give them a kiss. Give them a hug. Give them a kiss. Kiss on the lips were normal. And I remember his being wet.

Dawn Taylor

Oh, interesting. 

Jackie Roby

And it makes me kind of shiver. Still thinking about it. But after, when I started to learn about red flags and boundaries, I set those with my family like nobody gets to kiss me anymore. No. I don't want it. So, I didn't know when to say no or how to stop. And I need to know that. And then when I met my husband and he had a five year old daughter, I was really mindful of that. I will hug her, but kiss her, I think there's a certain age where you need to stop doing it. Like, let's think about her having her own boundaries. It became really important. So, that way you start to understand. I don't want to say rules, but we're right and wrong isn't a question mark. Yeah. You can say my life will look better and different and stronger because I know what's good for me  and what's normal. 

Dawn Taylor

And I'm allowed to know what's good for me. 

Jackie Roby

Oh, I would never have been allowed to not kiss a relative. Oh, gosh. No. 

Dawn Taylor

Hug them, kiss them. Sit on their lap. All the things. 

Jackie Roby

When I started to talk about it. I had an incident with him when I was 21, and so this was right after court, right after starting the healing with that ex and after my college graduation. 

Dawn Taylor

So, in the middle of the depths of the hell of your trauma. 

Jackie Roby

Yeah, I am with him alone. He's cooking me lunch. He takes out a picture, a school picture of me from sixth grade that he's carrying in his wallet and shows me, “Look what I have.” And, you know, not really being cognizant of what was happening. I remember saying to him and thinking like, “Oh, I hated that picture.” Right? Something silly and “Oh, I have newer ones.” or I don't even remember. We end up sitting on the couch, and I remember feeling like I was sitting closer to him than I wanted to be. And he had his arm around me and was kind of touching my shoulder and it felt uncomfortable. And then he grabbed my hand and he was rubbing my hand, and that felt uncomfortable. And he was doing something to my ear and that felt uncomfortable. And then he took my finger and put it in his mouth. And I froze. And then I will tell you, to this day, I don't remember how I got out of there. But I did. I don't remember what happened next. I just remember eventually saying, “I've got to see my parents. They were there expecting me.” And I left to go tell them. And the first thing they said was, “Well, had he been drinking?” And they said no, but it doesn't matter. And then it was like examples of when he made other women feel uncomfortable. Mom. And then we saw them for dinner that night. And we just kept going with life. And there it is, again. So if I use my voice. Still doesn't matter. Must have been my fault. Not really important enough. Might as well just shrink. Who cares what I have to say? And it just keeps lingering. And I don't know about you, but I found during my healing that while we were able to finally look at traumas and say “Those weren't my fault.” And know that I can confidently say I didn't do that. That wasn't my fault. I can see abuse. I have a superpower for it.  But that didn't actually help the other areas of my life where I continue to doubt myself. In every decision that I made. 

Dawn Taylor

Oh, 100%. Because your doubt. That doubt. It's interesting. It's like, um, if you were to take, like, a prescription, right? It kills all the bacteria in your body. Not just the good, not just the bad. It kills all of it. And that's often where people don't understand how trauma works. It becomes like a new lens on a camera, a new lens on glasses of how you look at anything and everything now in your world. So when people ask like, yeah, but the trauma happened when I was a kid. That's not showing up now in my relationships. It's not showing up in my work that's not showing up. And I'm like, oh yeah, it is. Yes, it is. And so with doubt. Right. Like that's a big one, is you doubt yourself or “Am I good at what I do? Do I know how to do what I do? Am I allowed to stand up for myself? Am I allowed to charge that much? Am I allowed to?” Right? And it shows up in all these other weird ways. 

Jackie Roby

And it has you spinning. It has you spinning. You know, when I became involved with my now husband and I had never wanted kids. And I was so nervous because I'm like, “I don't want to mess this kid up.” I want to be really careful. I researched everything I still do to this day. 

Dawn Taylor

Was it due to the abuse of why you didn't want to have kids? Am I allowed to ask that? 

Jackie Roby

Yeah, absolutely. I actually think it had more to do with what the dynamic in my nuclear family where my role in the family that was established for me was to keep the peace and keep everyone comfortable no matter what was going on with me? And I think because of that, I didn't want that for my future. So, I wanted freedom and that parenthood didn't look like freedom to me.

Dawn Taylor

You didn't want the responsibility of having to manage one more person and their emotions and their reactions, and having to be someone with them. 

Jackie Roby

Exactly. And so everything I did, I would research. I read a book when we first got together, a call The Career Girl's Guide to Becoming a Stepmom. Love it. Highly recommend it. 

Dawn Taylor

In the show notes. 

Jackie Roby

It's amazing but everything I would say I remember, I would then follow up with my husband. “Did I say the right thing? Was it okay? Was that what I should have said?” I wasn't really sure. Maybe I won't say anything next time. Like this went on for years. Wow, years of me doing that. 

Dawn Taylor

That makes for hard relationships. 

Jackie Roby

Yeah, yeah. And we had judgment, as I was saying, that came from everywhere. Including from the child itself who was being injured, of course. Right. Like that's kind of the natural one you expect, but it came fromm certain friends of his. “You should be doing it this way, or you're so great this way, or you can't say that.” Or oh, you know, every single avenue. I was being watched. And it just further enhanced all of that stuff until I started to take my power back and work on my own self-doubt that now I can stand and say, I don't care what you think. I know in me what is right. And if I am off in something that I do or say I am human. And I talk through it, I. Don't shove things under the rug like, I'm creating a healthy, wonderful, happy, peaceful space that supports mental wellness and breaking cycles of generational trauma. 

Dawn Taylor

Amazing. So in the doubt, you got out of the relationship, you start to realize all the red flags, all of this stuff. Then you walk into corporate. You've graduated, you're excited. Probably like most people, when they're in those early stages of healing, you're like, “I've got this. This will never happen to me again, because now I know.” And then you end up in a corporate situation. 

Jackie Roby

I will tell you that I spent my career in that I found myself in industries that were more lenient in that behavior? I started in casinos. 

Dawn Taylor

Oh, goodness.

Jackie Roby 

And each time it took me, it probably took me a good ten years into my career to recognize the pattern. Because I thought it was just the individuals. Right. The bad seed, right? But not recognizing the pattern of it. The culture that nine times out of ten it was older men, the power struggle. How I felt powerless. And how I didn't fight back. Where if I had any attempt at doing it, I felt so scared. And I eventually ended up being the one leaving.

Dawn Taylor

So how much of that do you think is, and I mean, some of it has gotten better with all like the MeToo movements and everything that's gone on. But how much of that do you  think was a trauma response in how, and I say it from you and I both and I've also dealt with some corporate stuff in, I hate to even use these words, but what we attracted, right, because of the trauma that we had, how we took it as a trauma response. And how much of it. Is actually just a normalized thing that we were taught to be okay with. 

Jackie Roby

Well as women weren't we just taught trauma responses? 

Dawn Taylor

Children of the 80s and 90s. I'm so very sorry for how our parents taught us.

Jackie Roby

Um. So appease. Was the one that I would utilize the most in those scenarios. Mm. And I for a long time didn't realize that was a trauma response at all. I just thought I was a nice person. So,  eventually, I set boundaries for myself to never, never, quote unquote, find myself in that. position.

Dawn Taylor

I love that you said boundaries for yourself, because people often think boundaries are rules for other people. And it's like, no, no, no, they're for us.

Jackie Roby

Yeah. Like I don't go out. You know, I'm always back in my room by a certain time. I don't do after work cocktails. If I do, I have one and done. I can do business just as well during the workday as I can at night. There are just certain things I wouldn't do anymore. Yeah, and, even my first one. My first job though, they were just. Bullies. I didn't put myself in scenarios with them.  I say, put myself. God, look at that, I'm blaming myself. 

Dawn Taylor

I was gonna say, look at the language. It runs so deep in us.

Jackie Roby 

It's so deep. Yeah. I don't know if I could give it a balance. It's honestly just been such a lifestyle.

Dawn Taylor

Interesting wording on that. It's true, though, isn't it? I remember. So years ago I was working for an oil field company, and I was the EA in the office doing the thing and having a POS and dealing with guys and dealing with billing and all this stuff. And it was a fairly large company.  And the guys were great, except one who decided he wanted to follow me home and stalk me and say inappropriate things and push me into walls and incredibly, incredibly inappropriate.  And it got to the point where there were other guys that worked for the company that knew what he was talking about doing to me. They started following me home every day from work. They wouldn't let me be in my office alone. When he was in the building and he was one of the supervisors, they wouldn't they would just make sure, like one of the guys in the shop would just, like, happened to be in the hallway every single time they saw him walk down towards my office as almost a protection and they went to the boss and said something. I finally went to the boss and said something and I was like, “Look, he's literally parking outside my condo. This is not safe.” And my husband worked at a town a lot and I was like, I feel unsafe with this man.  He was 30 years my senior and I was like, this isn't okay. And I was told I needed to figure out my shit because he made the company money and I didn't. So, they weren't going to get rid of him. And I remember standing there and man, I wish the me of now was in that position because things would have gone down very differently. But, I remember standing there and looking at this guy and going, “Okay.” And I went to my office and I packed up my stuff, and I just walked out and I phoned my husband and I was like. This is before I had a cell phone and I phoned my husband and I was like, I'm going on a really long road trip, I'll be back on a mentally ready, but I need to, like, process what just happened. And he was like, “Okay, go.” But my husband's always been very big on like, “No, no, you can stand your own. You don't need me to step in and protect you. Like, you're fine.” And, you know, as I was walking out, this idiot still tried to pin me in my office. Nobody said anything, and a group of guys, like, surrounded me, grabbed my box out of my hands and walked me to my car. And one of them followed me half, like, back to my place again. Because of it. And, you know, it's that messaging. It's another job where I worked for an accounting firm, and one of the accountants would always make me squat and bend over in front of him. He'd, like, purposely set files on the floor for me to pick up. And I remember thinking like, really? But it was also the PE teacher in high school that, like, to follow all the girls as they jogged and he'd walk the line in front of us as we did jumping jacks. And act like nothing was wrong. And I've had conversations with some of the teachers in high school since they were like nothing about what he did was appropriate. And we are so sorry. Right. This has been ingrained in us our entire lives. And it's interesting that at no point. 

Now, would I go to the cops on some of that? Yes. Now, would I hire a lawyer and charge people for some of these things? Oh hell yes. Would I go to the labor board? Yes. Would I go higher up above the chain to higher up management owners? The company? You better believe it. Right. Because now I have a very loud voice that I am not afraid to use it in those ways, but, like you said, it was a lifestyle. Right. It was a lifestyle of just “Suck it up. It's not a big deal. I need my paycheck every other Friday. And he's just a pig. Oh, it's just how guys think. It's just how guys are.” Right. And if I would say signs and the doubts, the doubts that come with that, though, that literally spread into every area of your life. 

Jackie Roby

Exactly. It extended. To any kind of poor treatment. I was treated horribly by a female boss who, you know, when I tried to bring an idea to the table, said, “If you don't like it here, you have an option.” And I went to HR and after the investigations and the conversation, they said, “Well, she didn't mean it. We need you to be able to work with her, though. Yeah. Can you do that and communicate?”  “Oh, I've told you something's not okay. You're still not doing anything to protect me. Did I do that?” And I spent so much time spinning. In that role, thinking I must be doing something wrong. How can I be better? How can I do something differently? How can I navigate? It must be me. How much stress and time would we save? Anxiety. Potential. Future. Wrinkles. By working on this piece of it. And as business owners, it happens all the time. And it's not that it's going to go away. I want to be really clear about that. But we can quiet it and we can recover quickly.

Dawn Taylor

We totally can. I had a situation in New York when I was there last summer where someone tried to attack me. And. It was. It was very interesting because my husband's always been very fearful of me traveling alone, and I do a lot of it. And it was a very dangerous situation, and I hadn't followed my rules of when to be back at my place and when to walk, where to walk, time of night to walk, you know, like 11:30 at night in Columbus circles. Probably not the smartest idea from a Broadway show. Like just going to put that out there if you're traveling alone.  But I was walking past a guy and he said quite quietly, but loud enough I heard it. “Oh, I can't wait to fuck you up tonight. And where I used to freeze and I used to just panic. I was like, oh hell no. And I turned and he had like 4 or 5 buddies that were all, like, closing in and circling around and pretending to play on their cell phones. There's not a ton of people in that corner right then, and I like chest to chest with this dude. And he was probably six two, six three like a big, big dude. And I went chest to chest with him and lit him up. “I was like, really? Are we doing this? 

Are we really?” And I totally, like, got up, like up in his grill. And I was like, “Really?” And he was like, he started stuttering. And I was like, “What is wrong with you? You need to call your mother. Get some therapy.” I totally just lectured him on the street corner at on the Saturday night. And I was like, oh, wow. And I just turned and kept walking. And this guy comes running up behind me. He has his phone on because he's about to call the cops because he was watching this whole thing go down. He's a local. He was probably like in his 60s. And he, like, chases after me, like follows me to Whole Foods. I was running into him, grab some groceries and he's like panicking. “Do you know what just happened?” And the manager comes over and they're having this whole thing around me. And I was like, “What?” And he's like, and finally he got his breath. And then he looks. The manager goes, “You should have seen this guy's face. Like that was not what he was expecting.”Oh, yeah, there was something else that happened earlier that night. I was just done right. Like, I was just done with all these men in their actions. And I phoned my husband and he's like, “I don't know if I should be laughing right now. We're flying down there and forcing you to come home with me.” He's like, “But I'm really proud of you and glad you can, like, hold your own in those situations.” Right. And it was a really powerful moment for me in so many ways. And yeah, it's a funny story. Whatever. I went back to that  corner. A week and a half ago, and I stood on that corner with one of my girls, and we stood there and I'm like, this is where that happened, is in this exact spot. And she's like, are you serious? And I said, yeah. Like right here. And she's like, how does that feel? And it was this wild flood of emotions of, that happened. Like that could have been really bad. Nothing about that should have ended the way that it did. But at the same time, I was like, I didn't doubt myself. I didn't doubt my abilities, my capacity. I doubted nothing in that moment, I turned into a powerhouse. And it was this really big moment of like, look how far I've healed. That I didn't freeze, that I didn't just stand there and panic.That I could stand my ground. And that was so incredible, that moment.

Jackie Roby

And you would have had every right to do any of those things,

Dawn Taylor

100%, 100%. I could have absolutely frozen. I could have just stood there. I could have collapsed, I could have cried. I could have done all of those things. Right. That is a very, very normal response. But to have my voice be able to be heard to that level and to not doubt myself in that way. It was incredible. 

Jackie Roby

Yeah. It's beautiful.

Dawn Taylor

Right. Like, that was such an incredible moment, and it might sound really funny, but I'm almost weirdly grateful it happened. Because it did prove that my voice mattered, and that when my voice came out that it made a difference.

Jackie Roby

I love that and thank you. That moment is such a gift. Thank you.

Dawn Taylor

I think this doubt and it's interesting as. And I'm not saying men don't feel this as well, but as 

women, especially women raised in the 80s and 90s. Right. I was raised in a culture where it's just like, “Forgive and forget. Act like nothing happened. But he was a good man. You're okay. You're fine. It wasn't that bad.” And all of those things that caused me to gaslight myself. Right It wasn't even that everybody else was gaslighting me. They just didn't believe or they didn't know how to deal with it, or they didn't know how to process it, or they didn't know how to respond or react because they just didn't. But their reactions and whatever went on caused me to do the gaslighting and almost hold myself in that position of continually justifying other people's behaviors but also believing that I had to take That it was appropriate. Right?

Jackie Roby

Absolutely. And you know when it comes up in ways that you just don't see coming. Like having to get everyone's buy in for an idea. And if you get one negative, that's all you think about. And it's like that negative is proving the story, the negative story you've been telling yourself.

Dawn Taylor

It's not that book of proof. I often talk about how we have a book of proof, and it's like this book of proof of every single thing that we have ever done wrong. Mhm.  Every negative conversation, every time we return down, every time we failed a test, every time we bombed at something, every time we sucked at parking, every time we, you know, every single time we screwed up, we have a book of proof. And it's almost like every page is a situation. And then we just add checkmarks to it, and we're constantly seeking out proof that we are that person, that we suck and that we that we are that that action, that behavior. And like you, I was bullied more from a female co-worker than I ever was men, honestly. But which is a whole different issue. But, it's interesting that we don't ever look for the book of proof of every way we've ever succeeded, every way we've thrived, every way we've overcome, every time we've done something right. The fact that, how many years in now you still struggle to be a mom? When we live in a world of such disconnect that I would hope that every kid would have multiple people that love them to that level, whatever the title is. That you would doubt that because of how you were raised, because of the abuse and all these different levels that like, that's so heartbreaking that we can't just be us, that we can't just love, that we can't just show up in the way that we want to show up because we're so afraid of somebody else's judgment. 

Jackie Roby

And one of those big ways it shows up is people pleasing. You know I spent so long write this, this rule making everybody comfortable. No matter what. It doesn't matter. The comfort of everybody matters. I treat them with kindness too. Everything stays in the family. Take care of this. Take care of that. Keep the peace. That I found myself in a career that was basically a trauma response. I was a sales person.

Dawn Taylor

And constant rejection, 

Jackie Roby

Constant rejection, constant keeping people happy. You gotta make them happy. You gotta make them happy. Constant proving my worth. And your targets hit your numbers. And you're only as valuable as your last sale. That I desperately wanted so many people to like me. That when somebody didn't. I could probably still count for you, the people that have not liked me. And. But it bothered me so deeply. Because I could not understand. “They're supposed to like me. What am I doing wrong? How could they not like me? What is they don't like about me? Is there something that I need to change?” Like, it became something almost an obsession. Until one day I turned to myself and said, “Do I like them?”

Dawn Taylor 

Isn't that the truth?

Jackie Roby

Yeah, I think that's the more important question. But that's all built in with that drama and doubt.

Dawn Taylor

So for people listening and I hope you guys still are. I know this has been a heavy episode today, but also I hope that you're seeing yourself in this to go, “Oh my goodness, that's me. I've done that. What is the boundary I need to put in place, or where do I need to start hearing my voice?” Please don't. Challenge your voice by walking in dangerous areas. But what would you tell someone are the first steps to healing that? To stopping the doubt, to even seeing where the doubt is showing up in the first place.

Jackie Roby

So I use the system I call magic. And it starts with mindfulness, and mindfulness is such a big word and it means so many things. But one of the ways that I teach it is by getting back into your body. Because when you do that. You're actually building new neural pathways in your brain to get away from the fight flight, freeze reaction, and you're allowing that pause. And you're starting to notice. And that's the part of mindfulness people talk about when they say be mindful, right? You're noticing. But if you do not slow down, you can cannot notice anything. So one thing I would say for someone is if you're having a moment where you just kind of feel in you that maybe it's just ickiness, right? Just pause and take three deep breaths in and out of your nose. And if you can close your eyes, great. If you can't, that's cool too. But just do those. Give yourself just that 10 seconds of pause. And it can be a game changer. For responding instead of reacting. We're starting to see a little differently. Make it a habit. Practice makes progress.

Dawn Taylor

When I think, I often talk to people about how often it's even. Just like you and I use this line all the time. It's like no judgment, just curiosity. And nobody can make us feel a feel. So if we are feeling something big, if there is a big emotion coming up, that means there's roots behind it. Right. The bigger the field, the bigger the tree kind of idea. It's like, “Oh, okay, what's going on here? What is causing me to feel this way? What is causing me to do this?” And at a moment with a relative, a few years ago, as he stood in my kitchen and lectured me on a relationship in my life. And I was like this little kid frozen in spot. And I remember standing there and almost like stepping out of the situation and watching it, like I'm watching like a play on the stage in front of me. And I was like, “Where did she just go?” Like, where did you just go, Dawn, that caused you to freeze in this moment? And I still do this, if this comes up for me, is I allow myself to go there and be like, who did you just have to become to be safe? Because  that's often what it is, right? It's a protection mechanism that's shown up at some point in our life that's  caused us to behave or react in that way. It has nothing to do with the other person. The other person is the other person, and we can just choose if they're in our life or not. That's fine, but we can't continually just put our healing on everybody else around us and be like, you need to change in your behaviors, need to change, and you need to shift and develop and all those things so that I can be okay. No. I hate to be the bearer of bad news. It's not their  problem. Right. As crazy as that might sound to someone. And so for me, it always goes back to this little girl like I always go back to, and it depends on the situation, who it is. But when  I can see it from her perspective and be like, okay, so she's feeling unsafe right now. Okay, that makes sense. You know, so much that's like maybe. And in those moments you can be like, okay, okay. So I went back to her. Okay. So what is the protection mechanism that she needed to feel safe. She had to shut up or she had to people please. Or she had to laugh or she had to get the perfect grade, or she had to do something to feel like she was managing the emotions of the people around her.  Right, or she had to shut up because your child and you should be seen and not heard. Or she had to shut up because there was a man speaking, and she had to show respect because it's an uncle or whatever it is. Right? Okay. Interesting. Is that situation still current? Is that protection mechanisms still needed? Or is that something that I can work on releasing now? Right.And I think that's for me where it's really been powerful, to in those moments to be like, “Hey, wait, I'm not a weakling anymore. I'm not that little girl who's trying to protect, but is a child who doesn't have the skills, the abilities, the words, anything to do, anything different in the situation.” Right? “But, how cool that I'm a grown ass adult, right? Like I'm a 44 year old woman who can.” I don't need to be frozen in that moment. I can stand up to the bad guy in New York, right? Because I'm not that 14 year old in that bedroom with my uncle who didn’t say no, right? I'm an adult now, and I have a voice. And I don't have to protect anyone's family or their feelings or their emotions. Like, I don't need to freeze. I don't need to shut up. I don't need to do any of those things. 

Jackie Roby

What I love about that is that it's still honoring that little girl, saying you needed that. 

Dawn Taylor

100%. 

Jackie Roby

And you needed to do that you know, when you find yourself in those moments? Oftentimes for me, it's what's happening in your head, right? Wasn't that you start to say mean things to yourself. There's this mean messaging and that starts to bring up the questions or impact decisions that you're making. We're not making, um, a question that I ask myself. I have my clients ask themselves is “Whose voice is it anyway?”

Dawn Taylor

Yours or someone else's. 

Jackie Roby

Many times. It's someone else. So that's, put that in there. 

Dawn Taylor

Totally. Jackie. You're amazing. Thank you for hanging out today. Thank you for your vulnerability. Thank you for talking about hard things.

Jackie Roby

Thank you. You've created such a beautiful, safe space. And I've learned from you and. I'm honored to have been here.

Dawn Taylor

You're welcome. For anyone listening, I know this was a hard one today. Or just a deeper topic. Not even that it was hard. It's real. It's reality. It's life. I just want to say reach out. Reach out if you need anything at all. Jackie is an amazing relationship mindset coach. She does all kinds of crazy cool things, and I hope that if you heard something that hit home today or shifted something in you, that it's a positive, not a negative, that you can start to see where the doubts showing up in your life, is it in your relationships? Is it in your parenting? Is that in your work? Is it in right down to what you're wearing? It doesn't matter. Where is the doubt showing up in your world due to the traumas that have happened in your life? And do you need to doubt it to that level? Or could you actually start stepping up and standing in your own and being okay with it? Join us again in two weeks for another amazing topic. Please tell your friends. The more they feel understood, the better. And check out the show notes located at the tailor Rekha. For more information and all the contact information for today's amazing guest, subscribe now on Apple, Spotify or wherever you listen to your podcasts. And Jackie, do you have one last thing you'd love to leave our listeners?

Jackie Roby

I would just love to leave you with the thought that you teach people how to treat you and it starts with how you treat yourself. So you're worthy of more.

Dawn Taylor

Hundred percent. 

Jackie Roby

People will love it or hate that one. Just saying. 

Dawn Taylor

I love it. Thank you so much, Jackie. See you guys again in two weeks.